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#1 03-01-2012 12:26:02

jack
Enthusiast
Registered: 10-05-2008
Posts: 149

Welding test

My BIL needs some welding on his quad so I'm going down to the garage to help out. First time welding, first time this new welder is getting used. The victim is an old lawn tractor cart we bought for $5 that's rusting to crap. Going to re-weld the axle frame to the bottom of the cart where it's separating. Really can't screw this up.
   
Wish me luck ;)
   
If it's either a ridiculous mess or magically wonderful I'll take photos. I expect to be somewhere in the middle.

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03-01-2012 12:26:02

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Re: Welding test

#2 03-01-2012 12:39:22

stevil
Enthusiast
Registered: 04-29-2009
Posts: 213

Re: Welding test

I'm sure if you messed around with a bypass you could fix that

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#3 03-01-2012 13:11:27

james
Rookie
Registered: 10-05-2008
Posts: 90

Re: Welding test

If its your first welding, you picked the worse thing- rust is hard to weld period, but especially for a mig. grind it as clean as you can. If the metal is just too far gone, find pieces of scrap metal to weld in.

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#4 03-01-2012 13:13:45

jack
Enthusiast
Registered: 10-05-2008
Posts: 149

Re: Welding test

It really was just to DO something. You're right it wasn't pretty. Actually the spot I'd intended is too eaten away and will need scrap, the gap is uneven and sometimes large, but I hit some other spots that were in better shape and just loosening up with age, just to do it, basically, and found I could get an okay line and connection if I did it in layers, two or three passes. Of course the first few passes were just bad because I'd never done it, but they got better.
   
I seem to get blobs about the size of eraser heads in a line, rather than a nice stacked line of them. The popping all of the place doesn't help, seems to blow the molten bubbles apart, but slowing down the wire or moving quickly seems to result in just a shotgun splatter of nothing that'll stick.
   
The one connection I really worked on seems to be pretty strong, though. As long as it functions, I'm not too worried about appearance.
   
The Jeep ain't gonna be pretty when it's done. I'll do the hidden welds first, I think ;)

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03-01-2012 13:13:45

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Re: Welding test

#5 03-01-2012 13:30:04

james
Rookie
Registered: 10-05-2008
Posts: 90

Re: Welding test

I'm self-taught, so those with more experience can jump in- but for mig, you kind of want to turn the heat up until it tries to melt through (if its thin metal), then back off just a hair. Wire speed- if its burning back into the tip, and isn't laying down a bead, the speed is too slow. If you are getting big bubblegum, and its not burning into the metal, the speed is too fast.

Movement of the gun- If you look at the bead and there are a lot of holes, with gaps in between spots, you are moving the gun too fast (sounds like what is  happening). If you are building up a big, thick layer, you are moving too slow.

Without seeing the weld, but going from the description, increase the heat; adjust wire speed to match (more heat usually needs a little more wire speed); and slow down moving the gun.

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#6 03-01-2012 13:33:42

jack
Enthusiast
Registered: 10-05-2008
Posts: 149

Re: Welding test

Flux core at the moment. Don't have solid wire or a gas tank, though it has the ability to do MIG as well. There are four "click" heat settings (3 X 10 amp, 1 X 15), the speed is smoothly variable.
   
On the speed dial it recommended 1 - 5 for steel and 5 - 10 for alum, so I stuck with the 5 and under speed. I ran 2 for the heat on the thinner portion and 3 on the thicker, again based on a placard. But I totally expect the placards are just starting points.
   
I'll do some more tomorrow. I'd really like to get those rockers on, but I need more practice before I'll even think about it. Also think it might be worth it to buy a bottle and some solid wire. I remember you said MIG makes for much smoother welding than flux.

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#7 03-01-2012 13:34:23

jack
Enthusiast
Registered: 10-05-2008
Posts: 149

Re: Welding test

stevil wrote:

I'm sure if you messed around with a bypass you could fix that

Alright, I'll admit it, I have no idea what you mean!
'splain it to me, please :(

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#8 03-01-2012 13:39:57

stevil
Enthusiast
Registered: 04-29-2009
Posts: 213

Re: Welding test

I've only seen it done once, but you can add a pipe that bypasses the exhaust inlet from the turbo and sends it directly to the exhaust, lowering the amount of exhaust that reaches the turbine, allowing it to require more exhaust to actually spin up to speed. Rather like a wastegate....just for the exhaust side and working at the beginning of the power curve than at the end of the power curve

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#9 03-01-2012 13:40:46

jack
Enthusiast
Registered: 10-05-2008
Posts: 149

Re: Welding test

What's that have to do with welding? :( I think we got our threads crossed!
I feel better now! It makes sense that I was confused :)

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#10 03-01-2012 13:41:44

evad
Enthusiast
Registered: 10-05-2008
Posts: 239

Re: Welding test

Definitely a newbie to welding but a few things I try to do:
1. Zigzag the gun slightly & perpendicular to the weld while welding so that it moves back and forth a little.  I think it keeps that area hotter allowing good penetration while not burning through.
2. Stitch weld........so weld a small area, leave a gap (skip a small section) and weld the next area.  Then go back and start filling up those gaps.
3. Start in the middle of the project and stitch weld to the left and then right of the middle.  Should reduce any bowing or high spots.    If you lay it out like a ruler from 1-12 start with 1" sections in this order 5,7,3,9,1,11,6,4,8,2,10
4. PROTECTION.....CLOTHING (long sleeves, thick long gloves), EYES, LUNGS, SURROUNDING AREAS, FIRE EXTINGUISHER, FLAMMABLES FAR AWAY
Fans can help blow/suck away dangerous fumes.

Again I am NOT a pro but sometimes I get lucky and lay a nice bead.
Of course having Jim come and show you how is way better!  lol


Check out my Jeep XJ

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#11 03-01-2012 13:42:35

james
Rookie
Registered: 10-05-2008
Posts: 90

Re: Welding test

Nothing wrong with flux core, it has its place- it can work O.K. on thicker metal, such as making up a bumper. It tends to burn hotter, and leaves not as nice of a weld. Its basically a wire-feed version of a stick welder.

Using gas and solid wire (and you'll want the smallest) will be best for thin sheet metal.

And I'll tell you the same thing I tell anyone learning to weld- get lots of scrap metal and practice. And use metal similar to what you'll be using in your project. Know anyone with a bunch of scrap sheet metal? A body shop would probably let you take a damaged fender or hood home. Cut pieces out and weld them back together. Over and over.

And my offer of helping when it comes time is still open. It would give you a chance to lay eyes on the Cummins Durango! lol. And I could bring my own welder (that I am familiar with) and we could go to town on those rockers.

And yes, I need to get that steering bracket shipped...

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#12 03-01-2012 13:43:58

jack
Enthusiast
Registered: 10-05-2008
Posts: 149

Re: Welding test

There's a body shop pretty close by. I hadn't thought of that. Getting scrap body metal shouldn't be too bad. Getting the thicker stuff (5/16ths, IIRC) to simulate the rockers might be more of a problem. Fanatical scrappers around here and a bunch of them, so stuff doesn't lay around very long!
   
Let's see how some cutting goes this weekend. That's step one.
   
No hurry on the steering, I just wanted to make sure I bought one from you so someone else didn't get both :) Having trouble finding one.

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#13 03-01-2012 15:04:20

jack
Enthusiast
Registered: 10-05-2008
Posts: 149

Re: Welding test

I have crap clothes I use for oil changes, paint, etc. A few cotton sweaters, old jeans and t-shirts, plus steel-toe boots. I didn't do very much and did it slow so I didn't set up a fan, but seeing what just a tiny amount of welding does I'll be setting up a fan next time. I was careful not to set OVER the weld, but sideways from the weld so I wasn't directly above the fumes. Having a full face mask helps, too. Very happy my in-laws got me nice gloves and a full mask so I didn't have to use that crappy, one-handed popsicle stick, masquerade party toy that came with it.
   
I like the stitching idea. And I actually started doing a little (very little) side-wiggle on my own, seeing it "fill in" better if I did that.
   
Thanks to all for the advice! Looking forward to learning.

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#14 03-01-2012 15:06:29

Jose
Helper
Registered: 04-13-2009
Posts: 28

Re: Welding test

make sure you prep the metal first. welding rust typically doesn't turn out well. even for the best welders

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#15 03-01-2012 15:06:49

jack
Enthusiast
Registered: 10-05-2008
Posts: 149

Re: Welding test

Good trial by fire then. All I did was use the brush to get some base metal, and not with a great deal of care. Anything I plan on doing "for real" will be much better prepped than my goofing around last night. I really just had to feel it to start out.
   
Looking to pick up some decent respirator masks today, too. The ones I have are pretty crappy. I'd hate to pick up some manganese or phosgene... Don't have a good ventilation arrangement in the garage. That should be a side project...

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#16 03-01-2012 15:08:06

mag
Helper
Registered: 10-05-2008
Posts: 20

Re: Welding test

I'll second that... make sure you are welding to clean metal or you will never be able to lay a decent weld.   An angle grinder is a welders best friend!

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#17 03-01-2012 15:10:35

evad
Enthusiast
Registered: 10-05-2008
Posts: 239

Re: Welding test

My buddy usually finds ironing boards, washing machines, car hoods and roofs
to use as his scrap metal. I think he likes the washing machine metal for
floors since they are/were pretty thick. Someone already mentioned that
nowadays it is hard to find metal just laying around.
BTW he used the oxy-acel torch to do his metal work........although he has
slowed down on his projects since he is now 76 years old. lol

Glad your In-Laws like you since usually to help motivate me I buy some new
tools and then get a chance to use them! ;-)

Have fun and take some pictures to show us the progress! 8^)


Check out my Jeep XJ

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#18 03-01-2012 15:12:17

jack
Enthusiast
Registered: 10-05-2008
Posts: 149

Re: Welding test

Should be grabbing one today. I don't think anyone else needs it soon so I'll steal it for a while.

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