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#1 07-12-2011 14:46:58

nads
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Registered: 05-29-2009
Posts: 54

latest scientific inaccuracies of the global warming religious zelots

An article on yahoo indicates a gallon of gasoline produces 20lbs of CO2.

As I understand it, CO2 has mass not weight, so it might produce 1KG of CO2, but zero lbs.

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07-12-2011 14:46:58

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Re: latest scientific inaccuracies of the global warming religious zelots

#2 07-12-2011 14:49:48

trapper96
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Registered: 04-07-2010
Posts: 56

Re: latest scientific inaccuracies of the global warming religious zelots

Arent mass and weight the same thing?  At least they are on my conversion program.

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#3 07-12-2011 15:19:08

eric
Helper
Registered: 10-05-2008
Posts: 27

Re: latest scientific inaccuracies of the global warming religious zelots

Hmmm. When I take KG and divide by 2.2, I get lbs. Works for me!

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#4 07-12-2011 15:22:06

Danuc
Helper
From: Virginia
Registered: 02-25-2010
Posts: 17

Re: latest scientific inaccuracies of the global warming religious zelots

You asked....

Mass is a measure of a thing itself, and is a constant. I am ~95kg
here, on the moon, on mars, etc. Grams are a measure of how much of
something there is.

Weight is a measure of the gravitational effect of an object's mass.
I am ~210lbs here, ~35lbs on the moon, etc. Pounds are a measure of
how much that something weighs.

In common usage, they're often treated the same, and for all intents
and purposes on the surface of the earth, they are, but they're
actually two different concepts.

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#5 07-12-2011 15:23:20

william
Helper
Registered: 10-05-2008
Posts: 18

Re: latest scientific inaccuracies of the global warming religious zelots

Don't forget STP (and I don't mean the fuel additive! ;-).

You weigh less in Big Bear than you do in San Diego, but not enough to
justify that cheeseburger and beer!

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#6 07-12-2011 16:01:25

warman
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Registered: 08-03-2009
Posts: 61

Re: latest scientific inaccuracies of the global warming religious zelots

uh, then school taught me wrong.
KG is 1000 grams as in Kilo Grams.
Mass is defined in grams, you have mg, cg, dg, gram, Dg, Hg, Kg
weight and mass are 2 in the same thing. Mass is usually defined by weight but can be also defined by volume when  compared to other items with mass.
Volume is measured in liters  same as grams.
on earth you may weight 95 grams, on the moon you will only weight 15.8 Kg

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#7 07-12-2011 16:01:45

trapper96
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Registered: 04-07-2010
Posts: 56

Re: latest scientific inaccuracies of the global warming religious zelots

I think he was just trying to point out that an object can have mass but will not have any weight without a gravitational field.

Its really semantics.  Kind of like centrifugal force (an imaginary force) versus centripetal force (a real force).

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#8 07-12-2011 16:13:40

nads
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Registered: 05-29-2009
Posts: 54

Re: latest scientific inaccuracies of the global warming religious zelots

> uh, then school taught me wrong.

yep, they did. :-)

> weight and mass are 2 in the same thing.

nope. This is where most education is lacking* (not you, just what
you've been told). Mass is how much stuff, weight is the
gravitational effect on that stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass
"Mass is a fundamental concept in physics, roughly corresponding to
the intuitive idea of how much matter there is in an object...

In everyday usage, mass is more commonly referred to as weight, but in
physics and engineering, weight means the strength of the
gravitational pull on the object; that is, how heavy it is, measured
in units of force... However, the distinction between mass and weight
becomes important for measurements with a precision better than a few
percent (due to slight differences in the strength of the Earth's
gravitational field at different places), and for places far from the
surface of the Earth, such as in space or on other planets."

Volume can link to mass, but only under strictly defined conditions
(usually, STP). A mole of He at STP will occupy 22.6 liters, but it
can easily be compressed to exist in a smaller space. The mass,
however, of the mole of He will *always* be ~4g.

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#9 07-12-2011 16:14:08

trapper96
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Registered: 04-07-2010
Posts: 56

Re: latest scientific inaccuracies of the global warming religious zelots

Yeah, what I said.

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#10 07-12-2011 16:15:02

william
Helper
Registered: 10-05-2008
Posts: 18

Re: latest scientific inaccuracies of the global warming religious zelots

Yeah? And how many of you thought Columbus named it America?

That was a misconception started by the crew of his ship! When he hit
a location that _obviously_ wasn't the Indies, he started cursing his
map maker!! Amerigo Vespucci, and the name stuck.

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#11 07-12-2011 16:16:14

danny
Helper
Registered: 04-11-2009
Posts: 22

Re: latest scientific inaccuracies of the global warming religious zelots

Your conversion program is ASSUMING 9.8 m/s/s gravity. But Helium has mass, what is the weight of a helium balloon?



A Kg of air has no weight but a mass of 1 KG (not 2.2 lbs unlike your tobacco) LOL

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#12 07-12-2011 16:16:59

trapper96
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Registered: 04-07-2010
Posts: 56

Re: latest scientific inaccuracies of the global warming religious zelots

Oh come on!  A helium balloon weighs more than the balloon by itself.  The combination just "weighs" less than air.  Try weighing an empty helium tank and then fill it with helium.  I guarantee it will "weigh" more than when it was empty.

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#13 07-12-2011 16:58:20

warman
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Registered: 08-03-2009
Posts: 61

Re: latest scientific inaccuracies of the global warming religious zelots

Ok, I'm trying to reason WTF I said and now I need a drink cuz my brain hurts.
I've been dealing with volumes lately with the whole BioD thing.
I think what threw me off was that you stated that mass is measured in grams and weight is measured in pounds. when in fact pounds and grams are innerchangable. All of my BioD stuff is measured in grams and liters. Because its easier. Say 10% of 180 liters is 18 liters and if the oil Titrates at 6 grams of catalyst then I need to add the base of 7 grams KOH with the Titrated 6 grams for a total of 13 grams catalyst per liter WVO. So then with 180liters WVO times 20% methanol  mixed with  13 grams  KOH. Thus I need to mix  2340 grams of KOH into  36 liters of methanol and add that to my WVO. Its just easier working in  tens and decimals than 16 oz to a pound and 128 oz in a gallon. plus its easier to start small and scale up. start with a 1 liter batch then when that works, multiply it out by total volume to be processed.
ouch, time for a cocktail... capt'n coke should be good.

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#14 07-12-2011 16:58:49

william
Helper
Registered: 10-05-2008
Posts: 18

Re: latest scientific inaccuracies of the global warming religious zelots

OK, but what mass of Captain's will you adding to what weight of
Coke? ;-)

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#15 07-12-2011 16:59:14

warman
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Registered: 08-03-2009
Posts: 61

Re: latest scientific inaccuracies of the global warming religious zelots

with regards lo liquids I choose to deal in liters... Generally I like the ratio of 1.5:5. You see. when its my own booze, I have no problem making said drink on the "weak" side. I find it more flavorful and sweet which is my preference over strong and harsh. Who cares if I have to get up to make a second one to compensate.
Even though I wound up putting down a 6'er of Hornsby's Amber cider as well as getting the mngr of Rubios to buy me a Corona since my food wasn't ready when I got there.
uh-oh... buzz is wearing off. need another bottle. oh, oh oh.... I forgot I have a 550ml bottle of Samuel Smith Taddy Porter. Its only 5% but its gonna be tasty...

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#16 07-13-2011 12:02:51

warman
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Registered: 08-03-2009
Posts: 61

Re: latest scientific inaccuracies of the global warming religious zelots

that made more sense when I wrote it...

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#17 07-13-2011 12:05:46

nads
Rookie
Registered: 05-29-2009
Posts: 54

Re: latest scientific inaccuracies of the global warming religious zelots

No grams and lbs are not interchangeable.
1KG on the moon weights about .4 lbs
1KG on Jupiter likely weighs a couple of hundred lbs
1KG on earth weighs somewhere between 2.1 and 2.3 lbs depending where
you are.

But, like the eco terrorists want to hide from you is the fact that the
scientific data being presented is inconsequential...on the few times
that it is actually factual.

For instance, on my partial zero emissions vehicle, which loses 10mpg
everytime they add 10% ethanol to the fuel. Where is the savings in smog
by charging me more for fuel that gets 10% less gas miledge on a vehicle
that already is nearly zero emissions.

It would be like a cop writing you a ticket for speeding going 65.001
mph on the California freeway. Yes you were speeding but the violation
is beyond ridiculous.

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#18 07-13-2011 12:06:52

nads
Rookie
Registered: 05-29-2009
Posts: 54

Re: latest scientific inaccuracies of the global warming religious zelots

At least in University Physics and chemistry they thumped me on that one
and I never forgot...they burned that into the engineers heads by
thumping us on tests with that.

Mass is not the same as weight, just like watts is not the same as
voltage or amperage.
But they are relational so you can determine mass by using weight, just
like you can determine watts by knowing volts and amps.....

Kind of like a Toyota 4runner is not a XJ, but to the uneducated they
might confuse a 4runner with a jeep.

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#19 07-13-2011 12:09:01

warman
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Registered: 08-03-2009
Posts: 61

Re: latest scientific inaccuracies of the global warming religious zelots

1 gram = 0.00220462262 pounds

1 pound = 453.59237 grams

I think thats interchangable, don't you?
And with the grace of the metric system...
1 KG is equal to 2.20462262 pounds. Just have to move the decimal point a couple of spots over...
I weight 88.8 # on mercury, 39 # on the moon, 555.5 # on Jupiter, 15.7 # on Pluto, 6361 # on the sun, 305500000 # on a white dwarf, and 32900000000000 # on a neutron star.
1KG is 1 KG just like 1 pound is 1 pound.
The mass of an object is can be defined in either pounds or grams. Just like your weight can be defined in either pounds or grams. Or in the case of my fat arse, Kilograms...

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#20 07-13-2011 12:10:21

eric
Helper
Registered: 10-05-2008
Posts: 27

Re: latest scientific inaccuracies of the global warming religious zelots

This helped explain all that.
http://www.edinformatics.com/math_scien … weight.htm

The first table is very interesting. I don't remember this from physics
class, but had to have had the discussion - maybe the details around a
molar made that fall into the bit bucket... <grin>

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#21 07-13-2011 14:16:13

peter
Newbie
Registered: 10-05-2008
Posts: 10

Re: latest scientific inaccuracies of the global warming religious zelots

grams and pounds are interchangeable for at least 99% of the people here
and what they do. For those few that will have to deal with mass at
places other than earth, they know the difference. Same with those that
have to deal with mass that is large enough to make a difference.

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#22 07-13-2011 14:19:44

trapper96
Rookie
Registered: 04-07-2010
Posts: 56

Re: latest scientific inaccuracies of the global warming religious zelots

All right then, which weighs more, a pound of feathers or a pound of gold?

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#23 07-13-2011 14:20:16

cameron
Helper
Registered: 11-04-2008
Posts: 29

Re: latest scientific inaccuracies of the global warming religious zelots

A pound of feathers.

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#24 07-13-2011 14:43:39

juan
Newbie
Registered: 10-05-2008
Posts: 6

Re: latest scientific inaccuracies of the global warming religious zelots

Yep--grams and pounds are interchangeable. IIRC, the difference between mass and weight is that mass is based on the AMU, or molecular weight of the substance (which is constant) where weight is subject to influence by gravity and is relative. If you were to go to the moon, your body mass would still be X number of pounds, because you wouldn't lose any of your body mass by going there, but, you would weigh less because the gravitational pull of the moon is much lower than it is here on earth.

To calculate the pounds of pollutants, n:

1 mol of gas at STP= 22.4454g x 1 mole x 22.4L = liters of gas/pound (at STP)

1 lb "X" g 1 mole

Explanation:

There are 454 grams in a pound. The next step is to find out how many grams of your pollutant are in a mole. This number can be calculated using values from the Periodic Table of the Elements. Add the grams per mole for each compound. For example, one atom of oxygen is 16 grams per mole and carbon dioxide is 12 grams per mole. This totals 44 grams per mole of carbon dioxide molecule (CO

2 is two oxygen atoms plus one carbon atom). For your convenience, we have listed the weights of carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, and nitrogen dioxide - three pollutants given off by cars. Insert these values for "X" depending on the pollutant:
CO2 = 44g
CO = 28g
NO2 = 46g

There are 22.4 liters in a mole. Multiply by this number of liters and you have converted the pound of gas into an equivalent number of liters.

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#25 07-13-2011 14:50:31

kev
Rookie
Registered: 09-27-2008
Posts: 76

Re: latest scientific inaccuracies of the global warming religious zelots

How many joints are in a lid?

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